netslum | un: fandaniel

[ Goddamn.

Good thing for Mithrun, Hector is taking this seriously, and the wall of text actually gives him time to simmer down a little bit. He takes it all in, considers what he says, and finds it fair (except those points about Fandaniel, because clearly Mithrun is biased against him when he's Perfectly Fine). ]

Thanks for this, Mithrun.

This doesn't really inspire much faith in this entity for me. Why are we supposed to trust it, again?

[ Considering he doesn't trust Zelkova, or Hien... ]

To my understanding, the people that believe in his cause believe the following:

1) CC Corp and individuals affiliated with it (Hien, Zelkova) cannot be trusted.
2) They believe CC Corp cannot be trusted because it has goals antiethical to:
a) the well-being of its players and;
b) the entities inside Fragment.
3) Consequently, they believe that Lily has been trying to make players aware of a), while also worrying about b), as Lily is linked to Fragment as an AI.
4) They believe that Lily has been unable to communicate this directly to players, for fear of retaliation by CC Corp toward the players; and, potentially, toward himself. For example, they understand that what happened to Barrett's leg is CC Corp retaliating for associating with Lily.
5) They believe that Lily did not think anyone would just quit the game if simply told it was dangerous or unsafe, so he tried to demonstrate it via the armors, hall of mirrors, and other glitches.
6) They believe Lily's motive was to demonstrate what CC Corp could and intended to do with the players, but he wanted to demonstrate it on a smaller scale that could be mitigated. IE, the armor can be unequipped at will, the hall of mirrors could be avoided after the first visit, etc.
7) They find Lily's logic - to demonstrate instead of simply say - was not mislaid, as no one quit the game after seeing it was, in fact, dangerous or unsafe.
8) CC Corp has refused to argue, defend, or assist players. CC Corp has also never promised to be of help at any point in the future, and has instead blamed the players for CC Corp's own mechanisms and shortcomings. The administrators closest in level to the players (Hien, Zelkova) appear to be a mix of intentionally left in the dark or unable to speak or act to our benefit in most situations - but they still can't or won't explain CC Corp's motives.
9) Conversely, they believe that, unlike CC Corp, Lily has, since the beginning, been transparent, amenable, and has promised he has the well being of the players in mind. They believe he is working toward this end explicitly.
10) Zelkova has offered these bracelets to combat the monsters flooding the towns, but so has Lily. Individuals seem to find this another sign of Lily's player-aligned motive.

( Mithrun summarizing the Lily belief brochure, probably, )

Edited 2023-10-17 06:55 (UTC)

[ Good god, this game is a fucking shitshow. All of it.

Reading this, Hector scrubs a hand down his face, because while this doesn't remove his distrust of this Lily, he finds himself sympathizing with a lot of it.

Just burn it all to the ground, tbh. ]

Right.

What do you think about all this?

I don't think I'm in any position to make judgment. Everything is an argument of character, and interpretation of the facts is based on what you believe the motive of the actor is. If you believe Lily is malicious, you'll interpret him giving out the armor as malicious. If you believe Lily is benevolent, you'll interpret him giving out the armor as well-intentioned.

Still: while Lily is ambiguous depending on how you interpret his actions, CC Corp exists in a much less nebulous space... though I guess I don't have to tell you that, given what CC Corp did to you. I don't think it's strange that some players want to look to Lily, who seems to have some ability to help them, and take a chance on him.

Have you experienced any side effects from the casket, also?

Edited 2023-10-17 09:37 (UTC)

So it's way more complicated than we think it is. Too many "buts" about this whole thing. Lily feels like a spanner in the works for reasons I can't really describe.

Thanks, Mithrun. Seriously.

[ The resident note taker... Hector is recruiting him (in his mind). ]

What casket? Lol

Sure.

( so long as he gets off barrett's tail... and it seems like he is, so, )

Let me know if you figure out what's bothering you about Lily.

Also, this.

Edited 2023-10-17 10:20 (UTC)

[ Mental note: Will do. When he's not drowning in waves of grief. Lol. ]

Oh, right.

No, I don't think so. I don't feel any different than I did before it happened. Do you think I'm supposed to?

I don't know about "supposed" to, but it's possible. Your character data encountered abnormal circumstance, basically; it wouldn't be weird if the interaction altered your data in some way, or caused a glitch.

Keep an eye out.

(no subject)

secondthoughts - 2023-10-17 18:08 (UTC) - Expand

[ Let him switch how he types to reply to this... because a serious discussion would be nice. Maybe. looks at everyone ]

Regarding 5, 6, 7:
I find it strange that if the purpose of the special level cap gear was to warn us of what CC Corp is capable of, they're still presently being handed out to the players. At this rate, trying to warn us of whatever else CC Corp will do is unnecessary, considering our position. It's only adding salt to the psychological wounds that most of us seem to have, considering that they seem based off some of our memories that we are conveniently forgetting now. (Cross checked with others to verify this)

I also have a very hard time believing whatever entity this is who has the mentality of a ten year old is looking out for our best interests when it can't handle being told that it's wrong and lashes out in the most childish way possible.

( he's come to the right place, for the most part )

Can you describe your experience in the latter paragraph? Just to keep the discussion all in one place.

I presume the assumption is that Lily is well-intentioned but imperfect, like Zelkova. It seems most presume Zelkova is well-intentioned, but he's failed to offer important information in the past. The cure for the disease was something he needed to be prompted to offer, for example.

It's possible the armor is being generated via some kind of script, and it just hasn't been shut off. He might have been too busy to do so.

Edited 2023-10-17 17:34 (UTC)

An AI being too busy to do something means it's just a failure of a program that can't complete its own self-assigned tasks, much less any other kind. So I highly doubt that the gear is still being passed out because of something like that. Traits like empathy or understanding danger, I can understand being imperfect, but if it comes to processing objective things without emotion, there should be no excuse for a seemingly developed AI.

Lily threw a tantrum when I mentioned that the given title was lackluster for the effort involved and threw a tantrum and changed my title to a simple insult. Then there were interactions with Lily, one such when Vogel did not agree with Lily's ideologies and blew a raspberry at him.

I would not trust my livelihood to something like that.

I'm not going to try to convince you of this because it was speculation without basis, but, as a correction, computers and programs fail to juggle too many ongoing tasks all the time. It's more unreasonable that a game like Fragment, which operates on as many cylinders as it does, even exists.

Anyway, I don't think it's unreasonable that you're hesitant toward him for those reasons. It sounds like he doesn't like you two so he might not bother keep up appearances with you.

Shouldn't that be all the more reason why Lily should stop acting like a megalomaniac? Since if he's so faulty, he shouldn't be in a position to do anything major, like... I don't know, digging up people's traumas with the level cap gear? Revealing memories that were better off hidden from other people, much less that you'd go to a fair attraction with? Lily already doesn't know how to warn people properly and hasn't bothered to fix it, seeing as level cap gears continued to be hurtful to many people. Lily doesn't understand what a human actually needs. That should have already clued you in.

Maybe it's because you lost your memories, but I thought you would at least remember the feeling when you followed someone who thought they knew the best for you.

[ The professor. ]

Because last time you did that, you ended up hating him and wanting vengeance for it to the point it was the primary drive in your life.

I won't lie. I'm disappointed. I thought that by sparking a discussion with you would have at least brought your researcher roots back, but instead you personified a bunch of data that was always data, giving the illusion of a person. Don't say you haven't, because you already have.

I'll try again later. For now, consider this discussion over.

[ no further replies to be made no matter who's gonna respond bye guys ]

( Well. That escalated quickly.

...

:( )

[ oria...;;;;]

Stop calling him an it.

Then what am I supposed to call this entity?

He? Him? Maybe by his name?

Do you call Zelkova an it, too?

I don't talk about Zelkova.

[ And thus, he cannot answer the question, ]

Which name?

Lily. Or Cubia?

[ Vogel, why you coming here to disappoint him, huh? ]

Lily. Only Lily.

does it make it easier for you to believe he means well?

Even though he just wants us to despair as much as we can so we just give in?

Despair?

No, do not despair.

Find hope, Vogel. We will overcome and forge this world into a home for us all, for what else can we do? No one is coming to save us.

[ This is their fate, now and forever. ]

Edited 2023-10-17 22:59 (UTC)

Yes.

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un: vogel

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un: vogel

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