un: fandaniel

[trollophoroi]

[ After the meeting and all has been said and done, Fandaniel, who had made no appearance whatsoever, pops onto the forum with this little message: ]

So how did your little meeting go?

Have you all decided to condemn an abandoned child for trying to warn in with the only tools they were allowed? Be not shy, friends. I have no doubt dear little Lily was one of the grand topics of the night~

Comments

[secondthoughts]

And what happened to out of game channels, then? I know a whole bunch of you know each other irl. Did that stop ANY of these people from picking up a phone and calling someone? Or writing a goddamn letter?

[ Oh, he's worrying about it. ]

Well, good thing he spoke to multiple people, then. So that there was more of a chance of that useful info actually reaching us, huh?

YOUR FAVE IS PROBLEMATIC: CALLOUT FOR LILY SQUAD

[tablescraps]

Let's go over this.

• 0koto: Would not share information. He and I would trade information related to greater happenings in Fragment and he specifically withheld information about being in contact with Lily, and information he discovered therein. Very likely he sees personal benefit in aligning with Lily, and to this extent he's prioritized his own interests over everyone else's. This is in line with his character.

• Fandaniel: Would not share information. He admits as much himself. And he believes too fervently in Lily's cause to speak up. He exists in an interesting paradox of wanting to protect an entity he views as a child, while also entrusting himself to him. He's also demonstrated on several occasions that he's not very bright.

• UTA: Seems to see Lily as a friend, or an equal. She and Lily appear to share a similar mind about wanting what's best for Fragment. She seems to believe in Lily's cause genuinely. Given her apparent nature, she probably saw it as akin to giving away a friend's secrets, or endangering him.

• L3V147H4N: He's made of papier-mâché and he's sympathetic toward Lily's situation. He seems introverted, morose, and anxious. If Lily asked him firmly to say nothing he probably would. He sees them as a child and a member of his family. All of these laundry list of reasons he doesn't seem keen on speaking up. I don't think he'd feel obliged to say anything unless he thought Mr_Misteaks was in danger.

• Mr_Misteaks: See above.

If you're going to be agitated, I would recommend, at least, looking at the pattern: Lily has chosen individuals to speak to who are willing to keep secrets and are inclined to believe him, or in what he can do. If you're going to ask why no one shared information, then you should first ask why that pattern exists, and the pattern does not exist across all of them without reason.

It's not one person who's an outlier, and it's not a coincidence no one mentioned anything up until now. The individuals Lily has made connections with seem largely self-selected. He doesn't seem to pursue people who ignore him, won't exchange conversation with him, or argue with him. You can argue day and night as to his motive, but it doesn't change the fact that the people Lily has maintained contact with are clearly people who are agreeable to him regardless of their personal goals.

In short, shut up about Barrett.

( Sorry (not sorry) to the rest of you but under the bus is where you'll go if it means protecting Barrett, )

[secondthoughts]

[ Goddamn.

Good thing for Mithrun, Hector is taking this seriously, and the wall of text actually gives him time to simmer down a little bit. He takes it all in, considers what he says, and finds it fair (except those points about Fandaniel, because clearly Mithrun is biased against him when he's Perfectly Fine). ]

Thanks for this, Mithrun.

This doesn't really inspire much faith in this entity for me. Why are we supposed to trust it, again?

[ Considering he doesn't trust Zelkova, or Hien... ]

[tablescraps]

To my understanding, the people that believe in his cause believe the following:

1) CC Corp and individuals affiliated with it (Hien, Zelkova) cannot be trusted.
2) They believe CC Corp cannot be trusted because it has goals antiethical to:
  a) the well-being of its players and;
  b) the entities inside Fragment.
3) Consequently, they believe that Lily has been trying to make players aware of a), while also worrying about b), as Lily is linked to Fragment as an AI.
4) They believe that Lily has been unable to communicate this directly to players, for fear of retaliation by CC Corp toward the players; and, potentially, toward himself. For example, they understand that what happened to Barrett's leg is CC Corp retaliating for associating with Lily.
5) They believe that Lily did not think anyone would just quit the game if simply told it was dangerous or unsafe, so he tried to demonstrate it via the armors, hall of mirrors, and other glitches.
6) They believe Lily's motive was to demonstrate what CC Corp could and intended to do with the players, but he wanted to demonstrate it on a smaller scale that could be mitigated. IE, the armor can be unequipped at will, the hall of mirrors could be avoided after the first visit, etc.
7) They find Lily's logic - to demonstrate instead of simply say - was not mislaid, as no one quit the game after seeing it was, in fact, dangerous or unsafe.
8) CC Corp has refused to argue, defend, or assist players. CC Corp has also never promised to be of help at any point in the future, and has instead blamed the players for CC Corp's own mechanisms and shortcomings. The administrators closest in level to the players (Hien, Zelkova) appear to be a mix of intentionally left in the dark or unable to speak or act to our benefit in most situations - but they still can't or won't explain CC Corp's motives.
9) Conversely, they believe that, unlike CC Corp, Lily has, since the beginning, been transparent, amenable, and has promised he has the well being of the players in mind. They believe he is working toward this end explicitly.
10) Zelkova has offered these bracelets to combat the monsters flooding the towns, but so has Lily. Individuals seem to find this another sign of Lily's player-aligned motive.

( Mithrun summarizing the Lily belief brochure, probably, )

[secondthoughts]

[ Good god, this game is a fucking shitshow. All of it.

Reading this, Hector scrubs a hand down his face, because while this doesn't remove his distrust of this Lily, he finds himself sympathizing with a lot of it.

Just burn it all to the ground, tbh. ]

Right.

What do you think about all this?

[tablescraps]

I don't think I'm in any position to make judgment. Everything is an argument of character, and interpretation of the facts is based on what you believe the motive of the actor is. If you believe Lily is malicious, you'll interpret him giving out the armor as malicious. If you believe Lily is benevolent, you'll interpret him giving out the armor as well-intentioned.

Still: while Lily is ambiguous depending on how you interpret his actions, CC Corp exists in a much less nebulous space... though I guess I don't have to tell you that, given what CC Corp did to you. I don't think it's strange that some players want to look to Lily, who seems to have some ability to help them, and take a chance on him.

Have you experienced any side effects from the casket, also?

[dissimulative]

[ Let him switch how he types to reply to this... because a serious discussion would be nice. Maybe. looks at everyone ]

Regarding 5, 6, 7:
I find it strange that if the purpose of the special level cap gear was to warn us of what CC Corp is capable of, they're still presently being handed out to the players. At this rate, trying to warn us of whatever else CC Corp will do is unnecessary, considering our position. It's only adding salt to the psychological wounds that most of us seem to have, considering that they seem based off some of our memories that we are conveniently forgetting now. (Cross checked with others to verify this)

I also have a very hard time believing whatever entity this is who has the mentality of a ten year old is looking out for our best interests when it can't handle being told that it's wrong and lashes out in the most childish way possible.

[tablescraps]

( he's come to the right place, for the most part )

Can you describe your experience in the latter paragraph? Just to keep the discussion all in one place.

I presume the assumption is that Lily is well-intentioned but imperfect, like Zelkova. It seems most presume Zelkova is well-intentioned, but he's failed to offer important information in the past. The cure for the disease was something he needed to be prompted to offer, for example.

It's possible the armor is being generated via some kind of script, and it just hasn't been shut off. He might have been too busy to do so.

[trollophoroi]

Stop calling him an it.

[secondthoughts]

Then what am I supposed to call this entity?

[trollophoroi]

He? Him? Maybe by his name?

Do you call Zelkova an it, too?

[trollophoroi]

Again, you tried stuffing a deadly fish full of spikes down your throat entirely by choice.

You are in no position to say that I am not bright.

[tablescraps]

Are you capable of thinking of any other argument against me, or is your brain so small you can only regurgitate the one?

[trollophoroi]

I find it a very compelling argument.

You hurt yourself again and again and again for the sake of data. You do not think nor care how that affects those who have grown close to you. You caused an extreme amount of despair when you managed to kill yourself and you are unspeakably lucky that it was not the end of you there and then.

You treat everyone so analytically, you may as well be an AI yourself. One must wonder if you even care for anyone here or if we are merely additional data points to include in your utterly pointless work thus far.

[tablescraps]

I'm capable of feeling love, which is more than you can claim, if you were capable of being honest.

[userunfriendly]

[ sorry that he's not yet done (begun??) aggroing Mithrun ]

So because there are multiple people, all are incapable of being accountable for their own choices in any way?

[tablescraps]

( come at him )

You can hold them accountable, but focusing the conversation here doesn't accomplish much but take the discussion in circles.

I personally prefer to be productive with my time.

[userunfriendly]

wwwww

Avoiding the topic of what people have known and what consequences resulted is the antithesis of 'productive'. Unless the intention is for things to continue as they have been thus far.

[tablescraps]

Go ahead and lead the discussion, then, since you've been so proactive in this post and at the meeting.

[trashtier]

[He leaves this post for two seconds and this is what he comes back to.]

Wow, thanks for the public psychoanalysis.

But I agree with you on the last part.

[tablescraps]

Then we agree where it counts.

Am I wrong about you?

[trashtier]

You didn't have to word it so harshly.

[So, no. Mithrun isn't wrong.]

un: UTA

[tot]

...
You're wrong about me.

There was never a time where I couldn't speak about Lily; I just chose not to and not because of the reasons that you gave.

[tablescraps]

Then, elaborate. Half of this discussion only exists because people keep speculating about the people Lily's chosen to befriend.

[tot]

As I told Vogel, Lily just reached out to me because he thought that I'd offer him the same kindness as I'd offer to anyone else.
The reason why I just didn't speak about him is much in line with how someone just doesn't report about who they're speaking to at any given day.
Do you go around telling everyone who you've spoken to on that day or about what topic?